League reorganisation

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andy
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by andy » 02 Mar 2018, 15:22

Interesting reading TRM. Thank you. It does seem to back up my theory that little is gained though. We've just swapped ex league/higher crowd pullers/bigger traditional clubs for more boring teams I've hardly heard of. I'm sure they think the same of us but hey ho. I think the line drawn for the travelling at different levels was already correct, the higher up the pyramid you keep splitting into regions the more you dilute all the football at that level and below. When we were in the Southern Prem there was a massive dip in that leagues standard when the Conference North and South was introduced. When we were in the Southern Prem 20 odd years ago the standard was imesurably better than it is these days. I know that was adding another layer into the system but the fact still holds that the more teams introduced will lower the standard and to be honest it's fairly dire as it is.

The Reasonable Man
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by The Reasonable Man » 02 Mar 2018, 21:14

The "bigger" clubs you speak of have all gone now - Darlington, Salford, FCUM, even Blyth, plus Halifax and Chester from before our time here. They were never going to be at this level indefinitely because they are bigger than this level, when all is said and done. Altrincham will, in all likelihood, be gone at the end of this season too.

I do agree that the NPL as it is is slightly better-stocked with "good clubs" than next season's theoretical Central League line-up, but not by much, and I'm not going to pass judgment on playing standards until I've seen what next season brings.

Step 3 is step 3, and for the most part it is filled with clubs not big enough for Step 2 and too big for Step 4. It's no use hankering for the days when the Southern League was Step 2 and you were in it, because it isn't and you're not. The same could be said about the NPL pre-Conf N/S, but we don't yearn for that League because we weren't in it then.

FWIW the Southern League is dreadful now compared with when we were in it in the mid 70s. This was the 1974/75 finishing order...

Wimbledon
Nuneaton Borough
Yeovil Town
Kettering Town
Burton Albion
Bath City
Margate
Wealdstone
Telford United
Chelmsford City
Grantham
Dover
Maidstone United
Atherstone Town
Weymouth
Stourbr*dge
Cambridge City
Tonbridge
Romford
Dartford
Barnet
Guildford & Dorking United

So is that the "same League" as today's Southern League Premier? On paper and in the history books, yes it is. But come on, we all know it's not. Time moves on, the pyramid has changed immeasurably, the SL and NPL have seen their places downgraded twice during that time - in 1979 and 2004.

Perhaps we're coming at it from slightly different angles? Stour haven't played higher than Step 3 since 1984. Even I can barely remember that. And it's only twelve years since we were at Step 5, playing Grosvenor Park, Causeway and Cradley, while you were at Step 2 until roughly the same time. The fact that you think next season looks uninspiring is at least partly a reflection of your club's diminished status compared with 15-20 years ago (and that's not a dig!).

Spooky
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by Spooky » 02 Mar 2018, 23:24

TRM / Andy ...

Both posting very interesting and eloquent responses. It's what I personally feel this part of the forum should be about.

Thanks to both of you.

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andy
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by andy » 03 Mar 2018, 15:35

Kind words spooky. Don't worry I'll soon be back to talking bollocks... ;)
TRM, you're correct in all of that post. I appreciate I shouldn't hark back to distant days because as you say we are not what we were and we're not where we where. I'm just a bit disappointed that the level we're clinging onto has no potential to be as 'interesting' teamwise as this division has been.

The Reasonable Man
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by The Reasonable Man » 03 Mar 2018, 16:33

I was looking back to the late 80s, when we were both in the Southern League Midland Division, which was Step 3 at the time.

There were a few names we would now consider "big-ish" such as Tamworth, Merthyr, Gloucester and Hednesford, some of which weren't actually that big at the time but went on to higher levels.

But there were also clubs which really didn't belong that high, like Mile Oak Rovers, Coventry Sporting and the late, (un)lamented Ashtree Highfield. Plus several small-ish but inherently solid clubs doing well to sustain the level - Bridgnorth, Bilston, Buckingham, Atherstone and others.

There was also a fairly unremarkable club from a rural town/village which hung around the mid/lower reaches for a few seasons without ever threatening anything spectacular. Forest Green Rovers. Whatever happened to them...?

I don't think that's too far removed from what Step 3 is today.

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andy
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by andy » 03 Mar 2018, 17:33

The Reasonable Man wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 16:33
I was looking back to the late 80s, when we were both in the Southern League Midland Division, which was Step 3 at the time.



But there were also clubs which really didn't belong that high, like Mile Oak Rovers, Coventry Sporting and the late, (un)lamented Ashtree Highfield. Plus several small-ish but inherently solid clubs doing well to sustain the level - Bridgnorth, Bilston, Buckingham, Atherstone and others.



I don't think that's too far removed from what Step 3 is today.
I was kind of forgetting that was indeed level 3 with those teams in it. Coventry Sporting, Mile Oak and Ashtree make this current league look like the Premiership. ;D
You win. ;)

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andy
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by andy » 03 Mar 2018, 17:36

PS. I'll bring this back up when you get 200 at home to Royston on a Monday night next season. ;D

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Re: League reorganisation

Post by AwayDayYeltz » 03 Mar 2018, 22:58

I’m a little concerned at comments implying and hinting that the standard will drop.

The standard of football I see at the Grove is already piss poor (from the opposition point).

In our time at NPL level I’ve seldom thought to myself ‘these are a good side’. Blythe and F.C. Utd off the top of my head. The standard at this level is frankly shit, which heightens my belief we’re massively underachieving.
Josh - Keyboard warrior! #UpTheYeltz

OmmerUmYeltz
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by OmmerUmYeltz » 04 Mar 2018, 19:40

I think defences are more organised in general than 20 years ago, but the attacking guile needed to break them down has definitely been declining. This leads to a lot of stodgy games where most goals come from mistakes. You can organise experienced defenders fairly quickly, organising attacks takes much more time, working on set pieces, overlaps, etc., and with the churn of players in a season (OK, we have a stupid turnover but I doubt there's a non-league team with one smaller than they had 20 years ago) that's so difficult.

The Reasonable Man
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Re: League reorganisation

Post by The Reasonable Man » 05 Mar 2018, 21:34

One thing none of us have mentioned is that this will change the maths as far as exemptions for the FA Cup qualifying rounds goes. Step 3 clubs will probably still enter at Q1, but ultimately the FA may decide differently.

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